[CVALE] Installer for Linux

[Landon Blake]

Steve and Terry,

Thank you for your responses. I hadn't looked at things that way, but I
have a better understanding now.

You'll have to remember that I approach my Linux experience from a MS
Windows perspective. I'm not saying that MS Windows is better when I ask
these types of questions, I am just trying to understand how Linux is
different, and even more importantly, why it is different.

You are correct, there are multiple installers for Windows software.
This includes at least two open source installers that I know of, WiX
and NSIS.

This is what I like about software installation on MS Windows:

I double click on a MSI or EXE file. I am then presented with a GUI
Wizard that walks me through the installation process step-by-step. This
includes reading and acceptance of the license, selecting of install
directories, and other installation configurations.

The closest thing I've seen to this experience on Linux is a shell
script window that asks me some questions during the install. When you
boil it down the same thing is happening, I just think the MS Windows
approach is more user friendly. 

As a user I would like installers on Linux that present a prettier face.
As a developer I would like a standard way to create installers for
Linux applications. (Imagine being able to create an installer that
worked for both the RPM and DEB packaging system. Now were talking!)

I'm not suggesting that I replace the package management system, but
rather build an application framework that allows graphical installers
for software that works with the package management system. I'm too busy
to work on such a project at this time, but I was curious about it and
wanted to ask some questions.

I guess I just love my slow, bug-ridden GUI's and I'm still getting used
to that Bash command prompt. :] I must admit that I find software
installation the most challenging part of my Linux experience. (Well,
maybe behind plug and play hardware...)

Thank again for the input.

Landon

-----Original Message-----
From: cvale-bounces at lists.fire2wire.com
[mailto:cvale-bounces at lists.fire2wire.com] On Behalf Of Steve Bibayoff
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 3:02 PM
To: cvale at cvale.org
Subject: Re: [CVALE] Installer for Linux

Hello,

On 4/4/06, Landon Blake <lblake at ksninc.com> wrote:
>

> MS Windows has the Microsoft Installer that allows software developers
to
> take advantage of a standard way to install and uninstall software.

So third party Windows installers don't exist? Aren't used? I'm not a
Windows developer, but I could name at least 4 different installers
for windows.

> ... Why is
> there not an alternative installer for Linux platforms?

Why an alternative? What's wrong w/ the rpm or deb package management
tools already?

> ... Is it because of the
> different packaging systems used by the different distributions?

There really is only 2 packages types(well 4 if you count lesser used
slack tar packages and Gentoo's portage)

> ... If that is
> the case, why isn't their an installer framework for Linux distros
that
> share a package management system?

It not the package management system that is the problem.It's the
packages themselves. One of the biggest problems is some packages are
built using different libraries than what is included on the distro.
Or the libraries are in a different location.

[cliped a desciption of current package management systems]
> The only requirement for support of the installers would be
installation of
> the framework and the interpreted language. Wouldn't this make
software
> installation on Linux easier for both developers and users?

No. The problem is the rapid advance/evolution of Open Source and Free
Software. Distro X came out their latest 4 months ago. But glibc and
many other libraries have gone a few revisions since then. Distro Y
wants to use new software, not software that is old. So packages that
are written for Distro X may or may not run(or run well(or even
install) on Distro Y.

What is needed, is a package management system that understand
dependencies and more importantly conflicts(software A requires
libD.1.1 but Software B requires libD.1.2). And how to handle them.
You could have multiple versions of the same libraries installed(you
need to use ldconfig and edit /etc/ld.so.conf correctly).

Most Windows programs get around this by just including the libraries
they need in with the installer, and just overwriting and newer or
order versions that are there. But this leads to what is refereed as
"DLL hell".(1)


m2c

Steve

1) this last paragraph is based on talking with people who do
exclusive (or much) Windows development. SO it's quite possible that I
misunderstood what they described, or can't comprehend have Windows
software is written and distributed.

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