[CVALE] Debian or Ubuntu...

[Pandora]

Landon Blake wrote:

> I'm curious what makes Ubuntu so successful. It seems that it has
> created a lot of energy and interest, at least when you compare the
> energy around Debian before Ubuntu arrived on the scene. Ubuntu must be
> providing something that Debian was not.

Good marketing? Catchy logos? Claiming oneness with the universe? 
Transcendental Meditation created a lot of energy and interest, and all 
it provided was a petty scam. I'm not saying Ubuntu is trying to steal 
your money with ridiculous "theraputic" techniques, but I am saying that 
kind of marketing works to attract people's interest.

Debian does not attract interest because it claims no magic, no saving 
grace. All it claims is free software. That's exactly what attracts me 
to it, is the fact that it isn't marketed heavily. That and it works 
well. ^.^

> I've heard that Ubuntu strives for more regular releases. Is this why
> many Linux users prefer it?

Nah, Ubuntu updates with (about) the frequency of Debian Unstable, and 
both are just about as stable as each other. There was some confusion 
because Debian Stable is so hard to reach that you get dinosaur software 
in there, and Ubuntu capitalized on that confusion by comparing itself 
to the older, frozen version of Debian, which is inconveniently called 
"stable."

I'd say most production systems should use Debian "testing". Freaks who 
like to update often use Debian "unstable". Developers use Debian 
"experimental" (which isn't a distribution in of itself, but a subset of 
packages known to have issues). Or you could use Ubuntu, but I really 
don't know the details of their release process.

> I have read that infighting and arguing sometimes slow the
> progress on Debian, and that is part of the reason why Ubuntu can put
> out more regular releases.

Sure, except for what I said above. If you don't feel enough package 
churn, go ahead and try Unstable. That's what I've been on for the last 
2 years without once hitting a crippling bug.

 > Perhaps that is an advantage of having one
> organization or person in control. (Isn't that what keeps the Linux
> kernel in such good shape?)

No, what keeps the Linux kernel in such good shape is the fact that it's 
modular. It was in pretty horrible shape before 2.6. Now things are a 
bit easier, but it still has difficult moments. (Point me to a current, 
stable guide to making 3rd party modules that don't need to be patched 
into the main tree.)

The advantage of having one person in control is offset by the fact that 
said person operates in their own self interest, and cannot understand 
the needs of whom he controls as intimately as they can themselves. It's 
just impossible to communicate that, even if the leaders were listening. 
Most of the claim that "fascism works" is itself propaganda created by 
fascist organizations in an attempt at self preservation.

> volunteer developers are the life blood of any open source project.

I wonder about this sometimes. How do people volunteer their time? 
There's so many obligatory costs in the world, that as far as I can 
tell, everyone I meet wants me to work for them 100% of the time for the 
rest of my life, or else bugger off. So are these developers truly 
volunteering, or are they stealing free time from other people, who are 
kept in terrible conditions and prevented from volunteering by their 
employers?

Meh, I'm just rambling at this point. Developers are nice, volunteer or 
whatever you call 'em.

> On another note, I think that community support plays a major role in
> the adoption and use of any Linux distro, at least for users that are
> less technically savvy.

It's a lesson that AOL, Yahoo, and Microsoft all know very well. It 
doesn't matter what features your instant messaging network supports. 
What matters is how many people are using your network. Because those 
people will force their friends to use the network, and nobody in your 
network can break out without losing their friends. If community support 
didn't play a major role in these sorts of things, then everyone would 
have started using XMPP a long time ago.